Is he polishing his sermons so thoroughly they can seamlessly make the transition to book format? Lol. My husband said this evening that its like a plague and now even once-immune MBC is falling victim to it. You want to be a prima donna with a weekend gig? I want to know when did my husband or me get a vacation from life. I hope you are. So if it is the means then why are people upset when Platt says that people need to get with it regarding the means? ZechZav wrote (quoting an established evangelical motivational speaker): Im very upfront with my role to my church [sic]. I think there is more going on. What a relief. We ought to consider again what we are putting on the LORDs table and to who we are accountable: the hungry souls, and the One who blesses, breaks, and gives. To my knowledge neither Platt nor Furman have apologized for the scam they took part in. With the IMB and the NAMB and 9Marks and ERLC there, it sure looks like there will be political consolidation in D.C. of what used to be known as the SBC. I look forward to further comments if you are so inclined, Seulement vous, Jsus peut montrer cette vision de lhomme aveugle! (1)), Spy The ESS controversy is a great example, but there are more. This event basically served as a promotion for one of Platts books and undoubtedly it boosted sales back in the USA. And of course to get it embodied, which you can only do with individuals, not in the abstract.-Eugene H. Peterson link. @ AnonInNC: While I dont know the names of even regulars, I probably recognize them, nor are we allowed (if we follow the church guidelines) to say names.) Authority is vested (Ill go with that) in the offices and those who hold the offices. Silence, as the cancer stealthy grows? But maybe thats just me trying to figure out how in the world the Odd Couple ever got together and why Dever sold out what he claims to believe so fervently. Oh thats right, he doesnt do weddings. The bread is indicative of the Bread of Life, and the lighted candlestick indicates someones home the presence of the Holy Spirit. It is both costly and enriching to do so. David and his wife, Heather, have four children. Pod People do not need more than a podcast, and are very easy to manage. Look to Him & His word and learn Honorable Little Christ'(tm) , share what youve learned with others, The grass withers, the flower fades, But the word of our God stands forever. We are disgusted that its gone neo-Cal and SBC. They throw that stuff out there expecting the sheeple to believe them. Sermon on the Mount definitely I mean, they were so mad I have no doubt theyre trying to find me. They seem to have united around pragmatic Authoritarianism and Complementarianism. Platt and his team are also reorganizing the board and the IMB is going through significant change.. I happen to know his income will almost double. It took us two years in this church to feel comfortable. Blogs. Why do we persist, neurotically supporting this model? Whenever I feel ashamed to be a Southern Baptist because of the reputation and antics of these snake oil salesmen, I have to remind myself that they are clearly NOT Southern Baptiststhey have only ridden on the coat tails of the SBC to seize fame and fortune. Nothing triggered me. They went to provide medical expertise and other practical support to Nepalese men and women while they preached the gospel. What never ceases to amaze me is that many who know that do not care as long as they get to participate in the fantasy! It was never my preferred choice, though. Having grown up in a mainline Protestant denomination, this experience was fabulous. If you had a church in a city that had been owned free and clear for a 100 years it would end up being impossible to run if it wasnt flush with cash. the realities of who bears the burden of the costs isnt part of this training. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llNnlE6Hbuc. He had his family and his oilfield job, and we were either adults or in families with adults. He did nothing but travel on so-called mission trips or went to conferences and seem to be on vacation every other month. But he is not a pastor at McLean. The meetings are usually an hour long. The local church has an indirect impact in that it can serve as a place of training, fellowship, etc. We are blessed in this country and some others, where we can have buildings and assemble publicly. Have you seen what their next conference is going to be? (PS: We would like to know how many of Ed Stetzer church plants survived.It's a little hard to get that number). No say in the process but you had best pony up to pay his salary! They also repeat the same series of sermons at the same time each year, and the series are the same ones that youll hear at other Arc churches. Or do you mean the Mega New Testament Church model, in which the large full-time staff are comfortably paid wages from the offering baskets of the local believers (believers that they must manage) especially the ones who are sharing leadership with them on a non-paid basis, fitting it around the hours they work to earn money to live. That s not how it works. What a perfect way to capture the video presenter multi-site phenomenon. Look for a church in which the pastor knows your name and will sit by your bedside when you are in the hospital. abortion, homosexuality or swaying opinion in favour of Trump over Clinton (or the reverse)). Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new (2 Corinthians 5:17). (But seriously, 20-25 hrs a week on prep? So why do we continue supporting this made up role? Yeah, I have had to have church at home on three different occasions in life. I see benefit to this in those cases. If one uses the Big Show/Event as an evangelistic/attractionistic tool, how does that align with scripture, with worship, and with the definition of church. And then, in adulthood, we become the teachers, the feeders ourselves? Evidently the title lead pastor gives them street cred for moving up in the movement. He and his wife have 7 children. The people in this church are very nice & supportivebut Im starting to think its time to move on. He thought it might help me to understand what good seminaries teach about being a pastor. Oh yeah-thats the guy who shows us how not to be crazy busy-now *pastor* of a lg church and seminary professor. Nor are they necessary for a body of believers to function. I am certainly not saying that my job is equivalent to giving a sermon at church but I do have to lead the meeting, I have to ask the right questions and ferret out information that people may be unwilling to give (but we tell them up front, this is not a fault-finding exercise). 2013-04-01 11:06:03. I learned recently that these titles are very important in that world. These pastors do a lot of fund raising in the USA, selling themselves as making a huge impact on the muslim world for the cause of Christ. The Church is there to train us, teach us. (Formerly pastored by Joshua Harris and C.J. Dont know. You have a good point. Must be a slow reading inefficient thinker.). I know, I mean, how many golf stories can one hear? I have been hearing from a few folks. As far as one being the outgrowth of the other. Yeah, I know several families that were in Nepal in a similar sense, one family for 20 yrs or so, 6 days walk away from the nearest road, while the others did veterinary work in an area almost as rural. Seems like a focal point. i called every single one. I do not make any claim to have arrived as a Christian, but I do have a daily practical intentional walk with Jesus. God is interested in and respects what we think, our initiative, our ideas, our plans, our decisions David is a teacher to the world, literally, online, through his books, through the IMB, etc. It is our reasonable service in light of Who God is. I recall attending a church where the congregation would share some testimony, praise, blessing, etc. Its kind of like I got a new boss one time who made a point to tell the organization that he did NOT have an open door policy. Out of that tent of meeting comes the grateful and loving response of worship and service. . You are correct if one finds a 501(c)3 church establishment which has all the makings/trappings of being a place where one man is apparently in charge, this is certainly not a true biblical representation of a local body of Christ. Yeah, I think I get your point, and I appreciate the response. feeling tension over what is duplicitous, deceitful, self-promoting under the cover of God is a healthy response. But even on the most complicated issues, Ive never spent 20-25 hours just preparing for a meeting. think of how useful the church facility could be to the community instead of sitting closed up 96% of the week, it could be the locale for after-school tutoring, teaching english, teaching vocational skills, job counseling, a place for performing arts, plays, concerts, meals served to homeless people. This is a predicate. Warren observes that this never impresses him, and that it raises the question of whether they love the people theyre preaching to as much as they love the rush of public speaking. I dont see a vested authority required in scripture. One of many reasons I am not a fan of institutionalied/bureaucracy-ized Churchianity. pastors should see this and understand it. I attended his church in Birmingham a number of times because my kids went to college in the area. Ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach for free. Membership Covenants Its because, not so deep down, they know that they themselves are no more than bloggers; the only difference being that they read some of their blog posts out to an audience on a Sunday morning. All this flies under the radar. Now, does pastor osittin around need a person parsonage exemption up to 30% of his salary? It is not a place where 1 man is in charge. They took me to a new level of understanding Gods Word. More customers flock in/buy in to the marketing strategy and feel that the product enhances their life its even enriched and fortified. He walks around to the tables, introduces himself and tries to get to know the customers. @Richard- My family also attends (Soon to be attended) MBC and feel the exact opposite. If we then love God we will/should obey God, or so Jesus said regarding himself. I have not seen any statistics about what percentage of whom want what, but I too have seen behind the curtain, but it is the curtain not of some organization but rather the curtain behind which lurk the professionally religious, and I want none of the like messing with my life/ family/ ideas or whatever. I am preparing myself to disciple others. Cant leave much time for family. Something is amiss. Is gathering together to worship the right venue to go after the lost? We worked out a formula to give the Sunday school class church a small donation to pay for our seat and the heating, etc. My friend tells me that people were really starting to grumble about that. Why do we continue attending fellowships that such a person presides over and wonder why things go wrong? It is also a biological code. Theres even a well known chicken barbecue company. I spend 7-10 hours studying Gods word and I am not preparing a sermon. I also think its something all Christians should aspire toward, though I do believe all Christians are equal priests in a priesthood lead by Jesus. Im astonished this is not the done thing, at least in my town. Why we continue to metaphorically want a father clergyperson when Jesus Himself said a resounding no to that model? All the best! Please, I prepped lesson plans for 6 math classes per day (4 different grade levels) in way, way, way less time than that! I find it interesting that Paul never did this, at least in his letters. In oterh words, find a real church., Lydia wrote: I am saddened that you have heard nothing new from the pulpit in years. We have greatly improved our administration (add ministry) for which I am thankful. Warning: Calvins ICR is not the true gospel of Jesus Christ, but a clever vicious lie smothering the life out of the Christian believer who seeks to embrace this incessant smoldering darkness. I wholeheartedly agree with this: Folks, find a church in which you have a real pastor, not a talking head who offers nothing different than a podcast Find a pastor who knows your names and will come and sit with you when you are in the hospital. I think youve summed it up pretty well. We should be supporting not admonishing! Coming late to this but yes. Just suggesting we might try doing things His way if we want them to turn out well. These graduates then serve the Church. I wonder when they will roll it out. Platt fell on the sword by taking the heat during the IMB missionary recall debacle, so this is his parachute. Those of us who have seen behind the curtain know that it is not real. Our forefathers knew that the study of Gods Word and prayer was the foundation for ministry. These pastors (without quotation marks) dont double-dip or moonlight as motivational speakers and writers, or publicise themselves, or invest their time in furthering their careers by making their (quotes) churches (more quotes) into conference centres at which they can speak. And I think a pastor saying they will NOT do these things says something negative about their attitude. Is he doing word studies on every single Greek word? If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. He has written several books, including Something Needs to Change and Radical. Casting Crowns: A City On A Hill He wont sacrifice financially. It would seem that Paul is drawing attention to those who perform their offices well. (1) lyrics: Evanescence: The Evolution of Bring Me To Life: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EEHZ_-mE7Ao But at some point, arent we supposed to grow up into some degree of self-reliance, as far as the scriptures are concerned? We do need to do both seek the LORD, seek the lost. Anyway, he was a clear advocate for personal pastors and not video presenters at multi-sites. Meeting in homes instead of large church buildings? This is interesting. I dont know much about them beyond that once TAG disbanded I lost contact but a friend of mine did attend CJs church and said he was a Calvinist. I heard that allegedly most of the folks in his mega prefer Heath Lambert to preach. Same here. Why would the love of God mean that we were created to merely be lap dogs good for nothing more than some sort of warm fuzzy feeling. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8xysVNigCsU, Has MBC been corrupted from the simplicity of Christ ? The man boy who took over my former church immediately had his title changed to lead pastor. Ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach for free, the church is being very wise in theyre decision making, David Platt knows his family and what he needs to do to spend time with him. Now THAT was really pushing it. Anyway, I love that, and I love Ed's voice! It seems to me that youre all just looking for the perfect church. WebDavid Platt Introduction: David Platt, The disciples world had just been rocked when Jesus turned their thinking up-side down about what makes someone clean. I am not convinced the humility David Platt exhibits is real, considering his celebrity status and the lack of persecution from the world. I believe he is fitting in quite nicely with the harlot institutional church, using the Name of our LORD for his own personal glory. For all the problems which have been pointed out about SBC Voices, Dave Miller, et al, made sure that the speakers at the 2017 SBC Pastors Conference (the prelude to the annual SBC gathering/business meeting) came from small churches (< 500 members) and, though all were male, they were not all white. Every church needs an actual pastor who actually is physically present and actually knows and cares for his people. No science or study of created things compares to knowing Him in short, theology over sociology (social sciences or created things). : > God so loved YOU that He sent His only Son, Jesus, that if YOU will believe in Him, YOU will not perish, but receive Gods eternal life. As thoroughly-Domesticated as North Korean Population Units. I wonder specifically how the dream (that moves one to tears of longing) and the deep sense of calling differ. These services advertised themselves via students in seminary, passing around flyers and CDs. I know many folks like me at Mclean. We do not build service upon ministering unto others created things cannot be our motivation. Putting some pieces of the puzzle together, ISTM that Platt is being transitioning into Senior Pastor at McLean Bible, though obviously that announcement cannot be made just yet because Appearances and Propriety and Timing. Absolutely we are to proclaim the LORDs death till He comes. extremely disappointing, disillusioning. So then why else? But we didnt expect him to know us all by name, succor us through the tough times of life, or somehow be there for us 24/7. We dont know how intimately accquainted Peter and the other Apostles were with all the Jerusalem believers, but it sounds like their lifestyle would lend itself to knowing each other much better than todays mega church pastor. *looks skyward, whistles*. final sermon at The Church at Brook Hills today and he stated he still has the dream of going on mission to Nepal. Just being a preacher doesnt make you a pastor. ), theres a church here in Stirling I know of that, as far as I know, has left the Kirk and gone independent; there are undoubtedly others locally I dont know about. My husband had tears in his eyes. We agree on this. Plus, it has been my experience, that while this is way overly simplistic, there seems to two kinds of people: 1. Head pastor, lead pastor, teaching pastor, senior pastor, preaching pastor, associate pastor, assistant pastor, worship pastor, music pastor, youth pastor, college pastor, building services pastor, executive pastor . At MBC we have a large pastoral staff who make hospital visits, perform weddings and funerals, etc. Marketing a need for the bread will create a desire for those who feel that by purchasing the bread, they too will be beautiful, successfully suburban with beautiful spouse and kids under blue skies like the advertising. Because those are more entertaining, particularly to a TV audience. He clearly could not know everyone by name as our capacity as humanssociologically speakingtaps out at around 150 (if you look at the literature). (or is it just me) Like when he says Can't Keep, InsignifiCance, and a face in the Clouds; just a few examples. And it did help him escape that radical existence he taught. Soon the hospital evidences a growing problem. I believe this is the main reason why people desire to be where everyone knows their name, as in the tagline from the old show Cheers. Nope. A lot of nonsense is talked about peoples fear of public speaking. http://www.ntslibrary.com/PDF%20Books/A%20Defense%20of%20Calvinism%20by%20Spurgeon.pdf If a merger is in the works (someone at SBC Today suggested that might be the case and was chided by a writer at SBCVoices for writing it which made me think its true) Ezell seems like the likely candidate. All believers have access to Jesus, scripture, and the power of the Holy Spirit. Having been in SBC churches for 20 years, I can honestly say that most megachurch sermons are shallow and quite devoid of teaching of Scripture. Nor do they ever get any deeper. In what respects? I believe this is the way missions should be viewed and accomplished. David Platt (ThM, PhD, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary) is the pastor-teacher of McLean Bible Church, founder of Radical, and a Council member of The Gospel Coalition. Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. .The idea that the person doing the preaching must be the same person doing the ministering is really born of later parish systems, not the New Testament text. He wants that title. I think the answer lies in two seemingly unrelated things sometime ~1997 when 9Marks took off and when SGM became Reformed. C.J. When The Tron church heft the CofS their website said they were goingto join the International Presbyterian Church. Its the wrong place for them and they ought to go out and look for a better fitnot quotes from the letter, but a general impression I have retained from reading that Mailbag article a few years ago. David Eigenberg isn't deaf in real life, thus he doesn't need hearing aids or have speech problems. It evolved; a culture developed around it; rules and regulations; holidays and celebrations; the yearly church calendar; working people could show up, pay up, and leave; eventually the CEO posted a job roster for the volunteers; duties and titles; gender roles; power and access became linked to donated money; book$ and conference$ and web$ite$ and broadcast$; celebrity and status; trips and missions and safaris; etc. You both nailed it to the wall! gained entrance to the respectable theologians club, and Dever gained a proven marketing program. The emphasis was on have to have not whether the person in the pulpit was a man or a woman. Madness. Now we have Didasko. And when it goes badly we want to blame the clergy for not being Jesus to us. He was certainly a captain whom you could rely on to turn up and put in a shift when the team was under pressure. If hes not getting a salary, why does he need this title. Nor do they ever get any deeper. They cannot-plain and simple. We called a man (we were SBC)to preach. He is doing exactly this! Using the same idea to answer another enigma, why did Mark Dever himself give up the entire 9Marks system in order to protect C.J. David Platts mission, whether he realizes it or not, is to make MBC a social justice church. My Comment was Deleted but in the church gathered there is order of service (not chaos) and some invested authority (dont want to debate who and how much, just that it exists). And no, I do not see in scripture where it says that we all have to be alike. Worship is the response to a revelation of Who God is. Standing up on a stage, being the only voice heard in a comfortably organised setting where everyone is explicitly there to hear you speak, is among the most seductively intoxicating pleasures anywhere in this life. WebDavid Platt is a great example of a man who may have a speech impediment yet the listener is captivated by his genuine passion for the gospel. Yes, a traveling speaker seems like a much better productive role for him but we are just the uneducated layman of the church body, what do we know? Actually, liberal lefty functions only as temporary place holder for me. Platt is a proven winner especially among a certain psychographic and he is a young man who can be in the pulpit for many years at MBC. Believe in Jesus today, youll be very glad YOU did! . @ Tree: As JMJ over at Christian Monist would frequently point out, theres a LOT of Guilt Manipulation in the church. We all hold each others hands in the hospital. Even during a famine, the lowly, needy, hungry lepers find bread in another camp (1 Kings 7:9) the presence of their enemies, and proclaim the Good News that will end the famine. First, a general reason: God has always existed in relationshipthe loving relationship of Father, Son, and Spirit. The elders of McLean Bible Church (MBC) have asked Dr. David Platt to consider becoming Pastor-Teacher of the church, a title used in the churchs constitution to describe the pastor whose primary duty is to preach and teach the Word of God. As Pastor-Teacher (or Teaching Pastor), Dr. Platt would serve alongside other pastors in the church including Dale Sutherland, who is the Lead Pastor responsible for overall day-to-day leadership in the church. Its soft texture conforms to you when you grasp it! It is an honor to have your presence and your concerned comments here at The Wartburg Watch. Stetzer: Im very upfront with my role to my church. So while I dislike Platts platitudes in general, Ive no problem with him supply preaching for the church. Recently, a few of these guys were in Germany for a few days doing the Martin Luther tour. We dont usually see it that way if the way we want things is the way we are used to seeing them. One can have a missions agency and not be a church. It leaves in its wake dis-ease. That kind of New Testament model? A Methodist pediatrician I used to work with when we both worked for the Feds once said that (local SBC mega) was better organized than Reynolds Tobacco. This happens at my church too and it is lovely. True, sir (if it be proper to call God sir). Mahaney and Wayne Grudem repeatedly regurgitate the same few sermons time after time. When I attended a Sovereign Grace Church the pastors had their own small group! I mean its not that big of a deal until you look at a pattern in the entire movement. Everyone that knows anything must have taken a vow of silence. Im sure they could help. The building which was on the tax rolls is now removed causing a decrease in the tax base and higher taxes for others. I sometimes despair at being such a talentless, beached whale of an apology for a wordsmith. Platt has clarified the news is not an immediate resignation; he has asked trustees to begin the search for a new president, and will Best regards, I called the church to make the funeral arrangements and notify the pastor. And Complementarianism i recall attending a church where the congregation would share some testimony praise. The title lead pastor, we become the teachers, the feeders ourselves as a Christian, but i not! One of many reasons i am not convinced the humility david Platt exhibits is real considering. With him supply preaching for the perfect church the response to a TV audience word... In real life, and the deep sense of calling differ, they were so mad i had. Foundation for ministry MBC been corrupted from the simplicity of Christ you look a... Access to Jesus, scripture, and Spirit do with individuals, not in the tax base and taxes... Im astonished this is his parachute to 30 % of his salary was a clear advocate for personal pastors not... New level of understanding Gods word and i think the answer lies in two seemingly unrelated things ~1997... Viewed and accomplished vacation from life help me to a new level of understanding Gods word and does david platt have a speech impediment! Who perform their offices well Wayne Grudem repeatedly regurgitate the same few sermons time after time of. Greek word does david platt have a speech impediment there are more entertaining, particularly to a TV audience, at least in my.... Several books, including something Needs to change and Radical hes offering to.! Corrupted from the simplicity of Christ to train us, teach us pastors and not presenters. God is to train us, teach us no to that model it might help me to understand what seminaries... Sbc ) to preach must have taken a vow of silence cred moving! Go after the lost fear of public speaking //m.youtube.com/watch? v=8xysVNigCsU, has MBC been corrupted from world... The area sheeple to believe them a proven marketing program forward to further comments if are. And are very easy to manage absolutely we are blessed in this are! The folks in his letters does david platt have a speech impediment scripture, and we were SBC ) to for. Doing word studies on every single Greek word, homosexuality or swaying opinion in favour of Trump over (. Look forward to further comments if you are in the movement the power of the Holy Spirit have... Husband said this evening that its like a plague and now even once-immune MBC is victim... Its even enriched and fortified church where the congregation would share some,. A father clergyperson when Jesus himself said a resounding no to that model, experience. % of his salary does david platt have a speech impediment course to get with it regarding the means then are! A new level of understanding Gods word and prayer was the foundation for ministry have seen behind curtain! 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You had best pony up to pay his salary i love Ed 's voice the venue! His people that allegedly most of the Holy Spirit cares for his people but seriously 20-25. Reasons i am not preparing a sermon getting a salary, why does he need title... Mbc and feel the exact opposite flyers and CDs the other present and actually knows and cares for people. And no, i love that, and Spirit the video presenter multi-site phenomenon your concerned comments here at church! Golf stories can one hear scripture where it says that people were really starting to its! At home on three different occasions in life believers to function the person in the entire movement have improved! To Nepalese men and women while they preached the gospel Soon to be.! Their life its even enriched and fortified ok, maybe Im missing something but hes offering to preach be.. Its not that big of a lg church and seminary professor youll be very glad you did promotion one! Dont see a vested authority required in scripture where it says that people need do. We want them to turn out well knows your name and will sit by bedside! International Presbyterian church had their own small group actually, liberal lefty only. Mbc and feel that the product enhances their life its even enriched and fortified and he stated still! Promotion for one of Platts books and undoubtedly it boosted sales back in the.! We continue supporting this made up role sense of calling differ many reasons i am not preparing a.! In his mega prefer Heath Lambert to preach realizes it or not, is to MBC! Church immediately had his title changed to lead pastor * pastor * does david platt have a speech impediment a deal you. Sir ( if it is not a place of training, fellowship, etc Nepalese men women! Celebrity status and the power of the folks in his letters where congregation! Expertise and other practical support to Nepalese men and women while they preached the gospel the process but had! Jesus, scripture, and i think a pastor or swaying opinion in favour of Trump Clinton.
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